| Author |
Message |
Dietmar
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan,
I created a Ramdisk from Cenatek Vers1.9 (wonderful tool) with 3.5 GB.
I boot XPPro to ram in that Ramdisk with VMware. Boottime is 5 seconds.
Therefor I know, how great is the advantage of Boot to Ram.
As a privat person you cant buy XPe. I dont want to spend 100 of hours
working for an SDI Image, that is killed after 120 days. I cant understand
Microsoft for that. Because of that behavior I think, Linux or something
new OP System will be the coming Standard in lets say 10 years.
I still dont know, why it is so difficult to boot XP to Ram. A simple
Bootloader isnt able to do that.
Glad to hear from You
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Slobodan Brcin (eMVP)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Dietmar,
Trough all this emulation and simulation you forgot few important things.
1. In real world you can't use pagefile when doing ram-boot.
2. 500MB image can take above a minute just to load to RAM. This is phase after BIOS and before RAM boot is started.
3. You never said that you can make a RAM Disk on XPP without page-file support and without VMware.
| Quote: | I still dont know, why it is so difficult to boot XP to Ram. A simple
Bootloader isnt able to do that.
|
Who said that this is difficult? You just need deep understanding of how things are working so you can tweak all parameters in
offline registry.
Also ntldr that XPe use is the same one used by XPP and it can be used for RAM boot.
Regards,
Slobodan
PS:
Give us results of tests that I suggested if you want us to go further.
"Dietmar" <dietmar.stoelting@t-online.de> wrote in message news:0dbe5062f77b96e6a402da1cc7134a43@localhost.talkaboutsoftware.com...
| Quote: | Hi Slobodan,
I created a Ramdisk from Cenatek Vers1.9 (wonderful tool) with 3.5 GB.
I boot XPPro to ram in that Ramdisk with VMware. Boottime is 5 seconds.
Therefor I know, how great is the advantage of Boot to Ram.
As a privat person you cant buy XPe. I dont want to spend 100 of hours
working for an SDI Image, that is killed after 120 days. I cant understand
Microsoft for that. Because of that behavior I think, Linux or something
new OP System will be the coming Standard in lets say 10 years.
I still dont know, why it is so difficult to boot XP to Ram. A simple
Bootloader isnt able to do that.
Glad to hear from You
Dietmar
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dietmar
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan,
after installing the 3.5Gb Ramdisk from Cenatek I disabled
pagefile. That was no problem. Its a pity, that I havent deep
understanding whats going on on boottime with NTLDR.
But how should I? Nearly nothing about that is documented.
But I am learning...
Now I am installing XPPro on a NTFS 2Gb partition.
Make all ready to work, and then compress it.
I hope, that I succeed near 500MB, without nlite oder something like
that.
You will hear from me
I never give up
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slobodan Brcin (eMVP)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Dietmar,
Part one is to load disk image file to flat memory. (This can be done by ntldr or by you).
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnxpesp1/html/ram_sdi.asp
Then depending on chosen way you tell ntldr where this disk data is and to start booting from there.
After all drivers are loaded in other part of memory kernel will start them and try to use ramdisk driver as boot disk.
One note that Konstantin someday could give us a clue is whether XIP would be possible from ramdisk (this would same some memory
when working with RAM boot).
There is only one important thing about ramdisk driver internals that must be met so you can use it as boot disk.
Kernel will expect that device object with "\Device\Ramdisk" name exist and that it represent boot disk.
MS ramdisk driver uses memory location passed by ntldr. so it know where to look for data, but if you make custom boot loaded then
you can hardcode memory position so you won't even need to know how to read this data. (Probably somewhere in virtual part of
registry).
You can download sources for ramdisk driver from MS site or perhaps from some open source community and fulfill these requirements.
1. Now you can install XPP on your HDD.
2. Install this driver on XPP.
3. Disable pagefile usage.
4. Make disk image file in SDI format from XPP HDD.
5. Place your bootloader and direct it to load your file and do the boot. Search in this NG for sources posted by me that will load
custom image from CD/DVD to memory.
6. Make boot and see what will happen.
There are many steps missing here how to do certain things, but this will keep you going for a while. (Take this as a learning
experience)
Regards,
Slobodan
"Dietmar" <dietmar.stoelting@t-online.de> wrote in message news:53cda847c7e54e93ef694a4b77fdb8a9@localhost.talkaboutsoftware.com...
| Quote: | Hi Slobodan,
after installing the 3.5Gb Ramdisk from Cenatek I disabled
pagefile. That was no problem. Its a pity, that I havent deep
understanding whats going on on boottime with NTLDR.
But how should I? Nearly nothing about that is documented.
But I am learning...
Now I am installing XPPro on a NTFS 2Gb partition.
Make all ready to work, and then compress it.
I hope, that I succeed near 500MB, without nlite oder something like
that.
You will hear from me
I never give up
Dietmar
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dietmar
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan,
thank You very much.
This is the first post as far as I know, that someone doesnt say it is
impossible. I talk to Sean Liming and
he was interested also very much, but he didnt no how to do, the same with
H.P.Anvin and me (hihi).
Installation of XPPro on NTFS is complete.
Lets see...
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slobodan Brcin (eMVP)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Dietmar,
You should know that there is no such thing as impossible, it is just a matter of time and knowledge required for something to be
done. Simple as that.
But like I said I do not see a reason why you would want to do this in the first place. What are your top arguments. Boot speed is
obviously not a reason.
Regards,
Slobodan
"Dietmar" <dietmar.stoelting@t-online.de> wrote in message news:bc1ae383f295a1bbdc253c852f5bd9e9@localhost.talkaboutsoftware.com...
| Quote: | Hi Slobodan,
thank You very much.
This is the first post as far as I know, that someone doesnt say it is
impossible. I talk to Sean Liming and
he was interested also very much, but he didnt no how to do, the same with
H.P.Anvin and me (hihi).
Installation of XPPro on NTFS is complete.
Lets see...
Dietmar
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dietmar
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan,
I like do do things, that none had done before.
Many years ago I put Win95 on CD and from there complete to ram.
This works until today, no fear of Viruses or anything else.
If You have Gigabit network for example, no single Disk up to now has this
velocity.
I read a thread, that someone succeed to put XPPro on CF.
From there it is a short step to try Ram boot.
XPe works for me very well, and so I believe it could come to a good end.
The only thing I dont like is the 500MB barrier. But this seems to be not
importend.
I have 6 days holyday
I will succeed
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slobodan Brcin (eMVP)
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Dietmar,
| Quote: | I like do do things, that none had done before.
Many years ago I put Win95 on CD and from there complete to ram.
This works until today, no fear of Viruses or anything else.
|
No fear of viruses? You must be joking right? Where have you been till this time, viruses that destroy OS files are the least
concern in these days. Trojans that exploit your computer resources should be more concern to you. Also usually you need to save
some working data on some persistent storage and that can be a problem. Write Protecting medium is not a problem and it is easily
accomplished with some hardware types in combination with RAM EWF.
| Quote: | If You have Gigabit network for example, no single Disk up to now has this
velocity.
|
Yes this is in theory only and it will work if you make your custom BIOS and server software. Current PXE implementations made by MS
and BIOS manufacturers are painfully slow :-(
| Quote: | I read a thread, that someone succeed to put XPPro on CF.
From there it is a short step to try Ram boot.
|
Ok I can boot XP Pro from USB disk also (Actually I can install it there), but I do not see any relation with RAM boot.
| Quote: | XPe works for me very well, and so I believe it could come to a good end.
The only thing I dont like is the 500MB barrier. But this seems to be not
importend.
|
500 MB compressed size would be around 700-800 MB of pure XPe files. Which is much bigger than you will make with any legal XPe
project. And you can always redirect non boot essential files to second ramdisk.
Regards,
Slobodan
| Quote: | I have 6 days holyday
I will succeed
Dietmar
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dietmar
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan,
my partitions size of compressed NTFS is 890MB, DirextX9c, ATI9700 All in
Wonder and Soundriver Audigy included also Giganet Intel 1000 Pro.
Now I think, that 890MB is not the problem to do SDI boot
to Ram from harddisk.
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KM
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Slobodan,
| Quote: | Yes this is in theory only and it will work if you make your custom BIOS and server software. Current PXE implementations made by
MS
and BIOS manufacturers are painfully slow :-(
|
Actually, it all comes to the Intel protocol specification. Some piece of work. (MS, who targets mass production devices, couldn't
pick up anything else but PXE.)
When they drew that specification they thought of very small boot program files to be transfered over network with TFTP.
One wants to start tweaking protocol first to impove the situation and then higher level software, if you really need good boot
performance for alrge OS files. And, of course, one better do any work rather with MFTFP if he thinks of many clients to boot.
Some companies and individuals have done that anyway (but out of standard).
My two cents,
Konstantin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KM
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Dietmar,
So, did you create a working SDI file with 890Mb size and it botted fine?
Could you show us the steps then?
Konstantin
| Quote: | Hi Slobodan,
my partitions size of compressed NTFS is 890MB, DirextX9c, ATI9700 All in
Wonder and Soundriver Audigy included also Giganet Intel 1000 Pro.
Now I think, that 890MB is not the problem to do SDI boot
to Ram from harddisk.
Dietmar |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dietmar
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Boot to Ram from DVD |
|
|
Hi Slobodan and Konstatin,
things are going very well...hihi.
Thank you so much Slobodan for the advice to
take another ramdisk.sys driver.
Dietmar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in